Amsterdam 750: a Conversation with Mayor Femke Halsema

Over here. Good afternoon, everybody.

Well, I got depressed, I think, at 12 o'clock and then I went to bed.

Well, I was hoping that a Democratic Party would be the biggest and I think at 12 o'clock or something, it shifted. So then I thought, well, I will see what's the mess when I wake up. But now I just understood that thanks to Amsterdam, a Democratic Party is becoming the biggest in the Netherlands. So that's good news.

Well, I think in the long run. Well, let me first say that as a mayor, I'm non-political.

Yes. And I say that in the present climate, a political climate, I think democracy, rule of law are the most important and most essential topics in every election. So then I think it's very important that a party, although I'm not from the party, but I understood you are, that really appreciates the rule of law and democracy and human rights, has won. Yes, I think that's very important.

No, it wasn't merge. GroenLinks, GroenLinks, yes.

No, I didn't.

Well, I think I already said something about it. I think, and it's not a typical Dutch phenomenon. I think you see it worldwide and you see it in the United States. I think our national thinker, David van Rijbroek, he said some time ago that you can feel when you look around that people are longing for fascism. And you sometimes feel that. We saw it in the Amsterdam streets some weeks ago on a Sunday when people marched through our streets and were chanting anti-women, anti-Muslim, anti-asylum seeker, a chance. I think worldwide and in the Netherlands you see autocracy, the longing for a strong and not-so-democratic leader is becoming more popular. And I think for every democracy, as for the Dutch democracy, that is a very big risk. And I think we very often do not realize how vulnerable we are and how easily you can lose all the things we really care for.

Well, we need debate and we need education and we need also, I think, civilization. We need to confront each other and talk with each other, talk about our past, what has happened in the past, how easily we can lose our democratic values. There is no other way than just by talking, by debating, by confronting each other, trying to turn the tide.

Well, that's nice. Yeah. What else to say? Well, it was a very intense year, the year we became 750. And there was a lot to do and I had to be at a lot of places at the same time. But I think last Monday when we finished and when it was our real birthday and we also finished our celebrations, I think it was very beautiful because it showed, I don't know who saw it. Well, there's one. But a lot of people saw it. I think it's amounted to three million people who saw it. And you saw the city in all its variety and in its history and architecture. And I think the image of the city was really beautiful. So I was very proud.

Well, originally, I come from the east of the Netherlands. I come from Enschede.

Yeah. And I left the town when I was 18 years old. And I remember that I was 18 and I thought Amsterdam is too big for me. I was a little bit afraid. So I went to Utrecht instead and studied there. But then before I became 30, I moved to Amsterdam and I remember biking, cycling the canals on my own bike the first time.

It was magical, yes. I became so... I was one of them.

I think it's the international vibe, the multicultural vibe. I think the non-conformity, is it?

Okay. Yeah, I think Amsterdam, you know, I think it was Billy Joel once sang about New York City being a state of mind. And I've always felt that Amsterdam also not only is a city but also a state of mind. And the state of mind is a state of tolerance, curiosity, well, strangeness, a little bit. And yes, I've always loved the city for it.

Yes, I am. I am very happy that it's over now.

Well, that's a difficult question. There are many things that... Well, let me first say it is a it's a heavy job also. And it takes a lot of adrenaline and a lot of stress and a lot of... Well, you need thick skin to be mayor of Amsterdam also. But it is also a very privileged position. And I'm very happy to be the mayor. And what I like most, well, I don't know how to translate it, but giving the royal recognitions to especially the volunteers in the city. It is always a very happy and nice moment. Travelling through the city, being in all the neighbourhoods, talking to people. I think I've done it for more than seven years now. So you know the city very well. You know its streets, you know its communities. And there's a huge richness in knowing, well, the fabric. You learn to know the fabric of the city. Also its vulnerabilities. And what is also nice of being a mayor is it is, I think, the mayor is still a valued institution. And it means that if you go somewhere, for instance, if you come at people's homes, when there has been an accident or a murder and people are very sad. And I visit people who've encountered a disaster. And when you enter, the institution enters the homes and people are always, are very often comforted by that. And being in the position to do so is really great. It's very nice. Even if you encounter huge sadness, then still I feel very privileged.

Oh, it must have. Yes, of course. Oh, oh, well, I think it changes you in many ways. Although I had been in politics and in the public atmosphere for quite some time before, I still had to learn to, my skin still wasn't thick enough.

I think. Yeah. Yeah, I think now it is. It's also becoming older makes you more independent from the judgments people give. So that changes. Well, but with becoming less vulnerable, you probably also become more open. And I think in the last years, I became more open. And well, I have to do some soul searching before I can really answer your question.

Well, I think, you know, for a mayor, there's not a political agenda. You just go with the flows of the city. And you have to manage the uproar. You have to manage the drama in a city. So I cannot say that I have achieved one thing that I'm particularly proud of. But I think, well, COVID really hit this city very hard. One third of our population is below 25. Many people live alone. So loneliness was really a huge thing in our city. And I think everybody who was here or just started studying or was still in high school. Well, you've lived through it. So you probably know what I mean. And I think in Amsterdam, well, I've done really, I've really worked hard to get things reopened, to finish the night clock, the curfew. Yes. And I think as a city, well, I think a lot of people were harmed by COVID. But still, I think that we did relatively well. And then I think there is everything that happened after October 7th, 2023. As you have all seen it here at the university, I think the whole city was upset and very sad. And all the different groups were sad. The Jews were sad and frightened. Muslims were sad and frightened. And well, we are a multicultural and multi-religious and international city. And it was by times very difficult to keep it calm, especially because you're always in the public eye. The whole country looks at you and you're part of the national polarization. But still, I think, well, we have tried and we didn't always succeed here at Rutgers Eiland. We've had the riots. There have been the riots, the fighting with the police. But still, if I look at the whole city, I think, well, we've stayed relatively soft and stayed in contact. Or we tried to stay as much in contact with each other.

Yes and no. Yes, it worries me, especially in the long or not so long run, because a city can only survive if we have teachers, police officers, nurses, all those lower middle-income groups who are really part of the essential fabric of the city. If they move out, well, we have big problems. And we have big problems if we cannot house our youngsters, if young people cannot find places. So, yes, it worries me. And we have to find solutions.

Well, it is a very old city and it is a resilient city, and it is a city that has lived through disaster, has been rich in times, has been very poor. There have been pandemics. So, I think if you look at a longer period, well, we will survive this and the city will survive. But it does not mean that the coming years for the coming generations will be that easy.

Well, I do not know. I think more than the city becoming an oasis only for the rich, I am worried about the segregation of the city. I think that is also a very big problem. You know, we are the richest city in the Netherlands, but also the poorest cities. We have the best educated people in Amsterdam and the people with no education, most people with no education. So, what you see is that especially middle-income disappear. That is not good for the fabric, as I just said. And especially in the outskirts of the city, people with low income reside and concentrate. And I think for a city and for the government of the city, it is really important that not only do you think about how it is not only a city for the rich, but how you can also emancipate and create chances for the people who are at the bottom of the income.

Yeah.

Well, you know, I am not a politician. So, the older man in the government, they are responsible for all the political measures. So, everything I tell is what they do. I am responsible for public safety and for the atmosphere in the city and for the structure of government. But I think what this city does is that it invests especially in those parts of the city that are most in need. And we are very consequential or very precise. For instance, if we look at how many police officers we have at our disposal, we put police officers in those parts of the city where criminality and lack of safety is biggest. So, we call it unequal investments. Thank you. Unequal investments. And I think this city invests a lot in education, especially lower education or a lot in the decrease of poverty. So, that is what you can do. But still, problems are also becoming bigger. For instance, the people who are homeless. More and more people in Amsterdam are homeless and are very poor. And you see that a city as Amsterdam is a national magnet. Everybody comes to Amsterdam hoping for a better life. Those are migrants, illegals and Dutch people who lost their houses. And for us, it is very difficult to give them places and to give them future and at the same time try to discourage people to come to Amsterdam.

Well, I think that's due to COVID.

Yeah. Well, I mean, looking at this trend broader, 30 years ago, it was already beneath 1,000 and going around 500. So do you think this is a result of a laissez-faire policy or does the municipality prefer to have this commercialization of the squares in the public space of Amsterdam?

Well, of course, it is commercialization of public space. I do agree with that. But it is also the effect of differing lifestyles and of more and more young people in your cities. But the main reason why the terraces grew is because of COVID. Because people couldn't stay inside. So we doubled the terraces. People could meet outside. And most of those terraces stayed after COVID. So that is one of the main reasons. And that was a social reason. And of course, you have to buy something if you want to sit in. That's where commercialization enters. But the main reason why we changed it was social. It's created possibilities for people who are lonely in their houses to meet each other.

Yes, I think it's very important that you have enough public spaces that can be freely entered by everyone. That way you can sit and have a drink without paying for it. You can bring your own things with you. Yes, I think it's very important. But I think you also should not dramatize what is happening. I think the biggest problem in our public space are cars, and not terraces. We have 250,000 cars in Amsterdam. And I think if you look at the cars driving through the city, it's almost a million every day. You know what this does with the public space. And I know everybody who loves their car should also now and then think about what we can do with all the public space if we share our cars more often.

Yes, I think there is no other possibility. I cannot think of another solution. Because, you know, Amsterdam is a small city. With a lot of people, we will enter 1 million, I think, before 2030. And we will go on. But there will not be more land. So we need to use our land as effectively as we can. And we need places for children to play, for young people to hang out. And I think it's a waste. It's a pity if we're together only looking at iron standing in our streets and doing nothing.

Well, I think that applies for the historical inner city. Yes, I think there is a problem. I think, well, let me just try. I think there are many international students here. But who uses the historical inner city for shopping, for going out? Well, it's more than I think, but it's not as much as it should be. Because it should be the most important place, the city center, for its inhabitants. And there are so many tourists that people who live in the city don't want to go there anymore. And there's nothing that they can buy. The only reason that you go there is if you love Stropavos. That's what you can buy there. And that's the problem. Because you see cities like Venice or Dubrovnik, where the historical inner cities have become amusement parks. And when they become amusement parks, those inner cities start to die. Because people do not live there anymore. But on the other hand, it is a free market. We cannot force shops to leave the inner city. We cannot just by decisions change the makeup of the inner city. So our policy options are, well, not that big. We cannot do that much. So, well, I think we should think together. And also, for over, here over.

Reclaim. Yes. Reclaim. I think we should reclaim our inner cities by, well, for instance, in Barcelona, where there are not as many tourists as in Amsterdam. And the city is bigger. And there are more inhabitants. So the pressure of tourism is less than it is in Amsterdam. And there are the inhabitants are protesting tourism. And you see that it has an effect on the life in the inner city. People are reclaiming their inner city.

Because I think the most important measures you could take against this form of tourism are out of our reach. It's cheap flights, for instance, Airbnb. Well, we've been successful in creating extra measures against Airbnb. And I think we are also an example in Europe. Other cities are following our example. But cheap flights are the main reason so many tourists come to Amsterdam.

It's European policy. But on a national level, they need to lobby in Europe. And my experience with the national government on tourism is that they see it as a local problem. They don't want to interfere. And I think that's shortsighted. Because my experience is also that over tourism is bad for economy. It's not adding to our value, but it's...

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it is decreasing us because many tourists go to international shops or brands. They don't go to the local shops. They stay in international hotels. So the local entrepreneurs, well, don't see anything happening to them. But the value of the city, for instance, for expats is also decreasing.

Well, we've tried to change the image of the red light district. But I'm not that successful until now by replacing prostitution from the red light district to another part of the city. But if I've counted, I think I don't have enough political support to continue. We've looked for measures to discourage tourists to go to the coffee shops with the inhabitants criterion. But also there, I don't have enough political support. So this is more or less where my creativity ends.

Not anymore. When people in the south of Amsterdam started to protest, I think the city council became a little bit nervous.

Well, there were three reasons to introduce the erotic center years ago. And it's also good to know that it was the city council who encouraged me to take next steps. But there were three reasons. And the first and to me most important reason is the human rights of sex workers. What we can see in the city center, there's a lot of trafficking. A lot of the especially women, but also queer sex workers are very vulnerable. And when you create an erotic center, you can better control the atmosphere. And you can also add, for instance, age to it. So we wanted to create an atmosphere or surroundings that were better for sex workers. This was one reason. The second reason was to make it less busy in the city center. And that is the reason that gets the most attention. The third reason is that we wanted to decrease the criminality surrounding the red light district, because we also wanted to give better entrepreneurs a chance in the erotic center. So that was the complete picture. But well, I've always been a little bit surprised by the protests. Because, well, in Holland, sex work is legalized, right? It is seen more or less as a normal profession. Although not many people feel that it is a normal profession, but it should be. But people react towards sex work as if it poisons their children or that their neighborhoods become ghettos. Well, my first reaction is, do you know that your children also have social media and see pornography already at a very young age? And if you look at Amsterdam, for instance, if we look at the city center for the last five years, more international companies were started in the city center than on the Zuidas. So especially the city center is very popular by international companies. So what are we afraid of?

Well, it's very important to add to what you said that we, after we noticed that there was an increase of incidents, I took the measure back. So now it is open again at night.

Well, it is possible that it happens, but it can also lead to an increase. And because I think anonymity is for the people who visit the sex workers is probably better protected in a neurotic center than in the streets. It is very close to the Rai. And we know that when there are international conferences, there is a lot of work for our sex workers. So you never know what happens.

No, I wasn't very surprised. I saw it coming already for a couple of years.

Well, this is a part of political negotiations and I'm not the only one who was a little bit disappointed. I think there were other parties that they are in government with together were also disappointed. So I leave it with them. They can fight about it and I will do other things.

No, no, no. That's just part of the story. I think our first responsibility is finding a roof and finding places for people to stay and finding opportunities for people, finding aid and care for people who are homeless. That is our first responsibility. The only thing I said is Amsterdam is famous on a national and international level because of the way we take care of the homeless. And the effect is that Amsterdam is a national and sometimes even international magnet for people who have not many opportunities. And the dilemma we face is that we want to take care for people who have no opportunities, but we also need to do something about being an international magnet, because otherwise more and more people are coming into the city and we do not have the money and we do not have the houses to take care.

Yeah, I really understand what you are saying. And well, believe me, as a person and as a mayor, I'm always, I'm very often seduced by, especially in the face of racism and fascism, by making political comments. But as a mayor, I'm also responsible for the public safety of the anti-migration protest. And that means that I have to guard neutrality. I cannot interfere in demonstrations or say they are good or not good. I'm in favor or against it because then the people who protest, whatever their political views are, cannot be sure that I will safeguard their well-being. So that is the reason that I cannot combine being a mayor with having political opinions during protests.

Well, it's not my personal house. I can stay there for a while.

Well, I think you can stay here for a while. I think you're not at risk. And I think your future here is also not at risk. And I think whatever your political affiliation is, I think with the victory of D66, I think the position for international students has become better. And I think, well, as citizens of this city, we can still be worried about the popularity of radical right parties in our country. But if you look at the city, the city is still a very progressive place. And I think it's not going to change soon. I hope.

Well, it's a problem. As already is apparent in your introduction, there is a very famous political phrase, an older political phrase, which says there is private wealth and public poverty. And that is the situation, I think, in large parts of the Netherlands and also in Amsterdam. Amsterdam is a rich city, but it is especially rich in its private wealth. But if you look at what we have in public wealth, well, there are many cities in the Netherlands who are more poor than we are because we still have a tax system, for instance, tourist taxes or other taxes that gives us income. So we still have a public income that we can use and invest. But what we see, we have to build a lot of houses and we built record amounts of houses the last years, but still not enough. But for instance, if you build, we want to build almost a new city, which is called Harbour City. And it's about, I think, 90,000 houses. If you build 90,000 houses, you need 100 schools and you need places for doctors, you need community centers. And this is where public investments come in. And if you don't have, if you have no public funding, then you build ghettos. You build neighborhoods where there are no arrangements for people who need help, for people who want to educate themselves, or want to emancipate. And that's worrisome. And it's worrisome that the national government has no feeling for what people need in their neighborhoods. Yes, I'm worried. And you mentioned youth care. And yes, we are more and more responsible for youth care, but we didn't get the funds to be responsible.

Well, I think it is very difficult. If you look at the rise in the use of youth care, I think it is also necessary to rethink who is using youth care. And how can we, well, make young people more resilient and less dependent on youth care. But at the same time, I don't want to relativize. Thank you, your English is so good. The problems many young people have, I think the stress for many young people, the pressure they're under, the influence of social media, the isolation that comes with it, the doomscrolling many young people face, gives emotional and psychological problems we really need to take serious. So yes, we need to do something about the system, but we also just need extra money to face the problems. You know, there are stories about young people who were suicidal and had to wait for almost a year to get help. Well, that's unacceptable and it's so painful.

I didn't know.

Well, I know there was a moment I was in Budapest.

Joining the local pride and joining the local mayor who was under pressure of Orban. And then Geert Wilders, you're all familiar with him, sent out a tweet where he said that he had encouraged Orban to get me imprisoned. Well, that was a moment when I thought this is not so nice, because I was in Budapest and thought, well, it's probably not serious, but what if? So that was a moment when I really felt political pressure. But, well, I don't want to act as if I'm tougher than I am. So there are moments when it really hurts, when you think it's not fair.

Well, now and then there are moments when politicians in The Hague, they really pressure me to surpass the law, to act unlawful. For instance, Bob Villen was a very good example, because they wanted me to enter Paradiso, use the police, get Bob Villen off stage. Well, I'm sorry, this is not Hungary or this is not China. So we're not going to do that. And well, now and then. But I think most of the time I feel very independent. You know, I'm chosen by the city council and my only responsibility is towards the city council. And the only reason why I leave is if they don't want me anymore. And so the national states, well, they can scream or national politicians can scream. But as long as my local city council is in agreement with me, well, then I'm here.

Well, I need to be neutral. And it is also where the question of the guy in the audience was about. But neutrality is not the same as defending human rights, because I think human rights are non-political and they're above politics, as is the rule of law, as is democracy. So when there is a demonstration about a subject, I cannot intervene in the subject. I have to stay away. But in general, I can have discussions about violations of human rights and I will do so. I do it very often. Also because my city council or the Amsterdam city council also demands it from me now and then.

I'm sorry.

Well, they try to. But you also see a rising solidarity amongst local governors and mayors, because we have to defend. We are part of the rule of law and democracy and we have to defend each other. And you also see an international movement. If you look at the mayors of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington, Budapest, Imamoglu in Istanbul, they're all defenders of the rule of law and of democracy. And I think as mayors, we are also proud of the position and we defend the position, especially if national governments lose or become less democratic.

Well, I think it's a combination. I am mayor of the of the capital. All media organizations or most media organizations are here in Amsterdam. So everybody's looking at Amsterdam. I'm a woman. I'm a progressive woman and I'm very famous. And I say it without vanity, but it means that I'm clickbait. So they also sell papers, newspapers with me. And that's a fact of life. So, well, I just live happily by, I think.

In this term?

Yes. If it is completely up to me, completely up to you, I want two bridges

Crossing the IJ. Not one, but two. Yeah. Well, but they're a little bit expensive. Some people from north. You know, they give me a lot of money now. So, well, that's one thing. I think I want, I want the subway expended towards Schiphol, but also towards Permanent, because I think one of the solutions, if we have no middle income houses in Amsterdam, we need better public transport towards other cities nearby so people can travel. So, and I think I want less poverty.

Yeah, you can go on.

And I want less homeless people.

Well, I can continue.

Well, get out of the public sphere. I think, well, I've been visible in the public sphere then for more than 30 years. I started when I was 28. So you know now how old I am. I'm very old. And well, I think I did my public duty. And I want to write. I've written a lot in the past. And I think I want to write. And read a lot of books.

No, that's not going to happen. No, and I think they don't want me. But even then, I think it's time for a new generation. It's not people who have already worked in The Hague going back. I think it's not good. It's not good for The Hague. It's not good for national politics. It's not good for me.

Well, always nice to be here.

Thank you.