RfD x ASAA: Words and Weapons with Ambassador Ammar Hijazi, Head of the Palestinian Mission to the Netherlands

Thank you. Have a seat. Thank you. Hello everyone. Welcome, Your Excellency, to the couches of Room for Discussion. You studied yourself a time ago in the University of Malta, but how is it to be here today in the University of Amsterdam amongst all of these young students?

Well, that goes all the way back to the core question of Palestine, and that is the existence of the Palestinian people and their right to self-determination. The simple answer is that the Netherlands, the Kingdom of Netherlands, does not recognize the state of Palestine. And because of that, we are simply a mission that represents the Palestinian people under the banner of the PLO and the Palestinian Authority. The more deeper answer to that question is that this lack of recognition is the history and the story of the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people have been always faced with the attempts for erasure, but more so lack of recognition. So if you die, you are not recognized as such a nation that have rights or that are entitled to certain prerogatives like other humans. The lack of recognition strips you of many other aspects of your existence as a nation, and therefore it allows for your erasure to go much smoothly. So there is a serious problem with that issue, and we have always brought this to the forefront. The first and number one fight for the Palestinian people is to be on the table and to be recognized as equals, amongst equals. We're not better than anyone, but we're not less than any other nation. And the legal, moral, and political responsibilities of all nations around the world, in particular those who decided to come without even consulting with the Palestinian people about the partitioning of their homeland into two states, like the Netherlands did when it voted in favor of the partition resolution, which is, we can go back to it later on in the historical context, it has a legal responsibility towards the Palestinian people. It speaks about two nations that will exist next to each other. So why don't you recognize that other nation? In fact, I discovered even, and through my colleagues here, we have been fighting to be present on the registry. Can you imagine that the Palestinian identity is not even available in the registry of the – when you register your citizens or their backgrounds, where are you from? You don't have that, and that's erasure.

Well, the UN General Assembly has said its words. I think the majority, the vast majority of the United Nations member states have voted in favor of accepting Palestine as a state. And now the vast majority of the nations around the world – in fact, we have 150, 149, 150 nations that recognize the state of Palestine, and therefore the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination. And just to correct the question, but what – why Palestine is being denied membership at the United Nations is because of the U.S. veto. And that's the answer to your question. We're denied to be equal in our representation at the level of the United Nations. And again, that's another attempt to ensure that you are stripped of your rights, just like we were stripped in 181. When 181 resolution was adopted, we were not on the table. We were not consulted. We were the majority. The vast ownership of land, 92 to 93 percent of the land of Palestine was ours. Yet, none of us was consulted, and we made it clear to everyone that we don't want to partition our homeland. But yet, the world went ahead and did that partition. And whatever transpired from that partition, which is the catastrophe to the Palestinian people in Nakba, and more catastrophes down the road, ending with the genocide that we're witnessing now in Gaza and in the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory.

Well, the identity is one. It's the Palestinian identity. But Palestinians, yes, they were scattered around the world following 1947-48 Nakba. And much before that, because of the cruel treatment of the British occupation, and to a certain extent, most of the Palestinian community in Latin America, we have a big Palestinian community in Latin America. This is almost a third-generation Palestinian community. We're also migrated during the Ottoman ruling of Palestine because of the inscription in the army, which many people did not want to do. We have devised the PLO, the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, in which both Palestinians living inside Palestine, outside Palestine, have the right to elect their officials and to be represented in the Palestinian National Council. In fact, just today, we received a new announcement about the upcoming elections of the Palestine National Council, which was not held for a long time because of the internal split. So communities, for example, the Palestinian community here in the Netherlands, will have to decide who would represent them in the Palestinian National Council. And then the percentage of representation is dependent on the number of Palestinians present, but also the parties have their representations and therefore elections. So everybody outside Palestine, whether he is in the Netherlands or in Patagonia, in Chile, or wherever you want to go all the way to the corners of the world, should be and have the right to be represented. Of course, nothing is perfect. I mean, you have stable governments that can barely run their businesses, let alone a formation like this. But we managed, we managed under the PLO to unite this, to unite the Palestinian people under one umbrella. And in my opinion, and I think the opinion of many Palestinians also, and other historians, if there is anything that the Palestinians can be proud of, an achievement that we can be proud of thus far, is the creation of that united front under the PLO, and to have a sole representative, which paved the way for the Palestinian people to be represented at the international fronts in different ways, whether it is the United Nations, and which was also the catalyst under which the Palestinians held their struggle, devised their political opinions, decided, quarreled internally, but came to the world united, and so on and so forth.

I think this statement is a bit taken out of context. He's speaking about how others view us. Yeah. So we are only recognized if you are to attain to others' problems. It's not because you recognize me, I exist as a human. And this is the complex that has always derailed the resolve of the question of Palestine, because we always don't exist. I just told you a while ago, we don't exist on the registry. You have so many identities that are not even nation-like identities that exist on the registry. Yet, Palestine, Palestinian, if I go today and they tell me, what's your background, and you want to have an ID, I, as a diplomat, I carry an ID that does not carry the name Palestine, my identity in it. I am a diplomat. I can do so many things that goes beyond the law and what you are entitled to, and I enjoy a lot of diplomatic immunities, but I don't enjoy the most basic of rights. That is my identity. Mahmoud Darwish is not only a writer. He's a philosopher. He's a Palestinian poet, and he's the man who basically reflected Palestinian pains and story to the whole world and to ourselves. So this is taken in the context of how the world view us. They want to view us as a follower, as the other, as someone who by default existed on the land and should not have been there in the first place, so that to strip you of your identity and to okay your killing at the end of the day. That's the problem.

Yes, it is being changed.

Well, some are still. Others are not. And I think the voices of the others came very clear in the last episode of the injustice that the Palestinian people has been put through. That is the genocide that allowed so many people who were sitting on the referee, and you see them and you meet them every day and everywhere, and they speak to you about how much passionate they are. But they not necessarily marched in the streets. They have never necessarily took to their elected officials and asked them, demanded certain things. They just sympathize. But once the catastrophe of the recent round of the genocide and the cruelty under which this genocide was committed, it brought most of these silent voices out to the open. So it's not only now. It happened so many times before in our history in different reflections. So 1982 invasion of Lebanon during the first intifada, during the second intifada. You had so many righteous, good people, peace-loving people coming out and speaking in favor of Palestine. But now, and this is why there is so much effort to thwart the whole international campaign that has united around free Palestine and ending the criminality against the Palestinian people that has been going on for almost a century now. So it's yes and no. Some want us to be not spoken about except if we are to confirm the resolve of a certain problem to others, i.e. the security of our oppressor and to ensure that he lives and thrives and he has the servants that he needs around him and come to his aid and come to plow his land and do whatever to him. That's fine. You can then speak about us as the second. But no, the majority of the people, the majority of the nations and I would say first and foremost it is the Palestinian people that ensured that they are not forgotten, that they are not erased and they stood up to their rights and they fought proudly across history. Not one time the Palestinians throughout the hundred years that passed and even before. We have wavered one minute in our struggle to the freedom and to the identity which is resurrected as deep as the history of that land. And we will continue to do so. We will not stop. So first the Palestinian people and then everybody else who stood up with the Palestinian people in this rightful and I would say a struggle not only for the Palestinians by extension for humanity.

I think, I mean the same logic is the logic of erasure. If we go back to the whole question, when the Nakba started or even before since you're going back in history now if you wish to touch upon history. When the League of Nations was formed it was meant to give people around the world the right to self-determination and for those developed nations to come and aid the countries that found themselves under struggle and under colonization to gain their freedom. So there was a resetting for the colonial enterprise that the world has waged and it was set on rules and legal basis. The only exception was Palestine in which they flipped the whole picture and they have introduced in spite of Palestine being developed already to gain its independence and it was that developed. They introduced another element in which they wanted to resolve a problem of a people living somewhere else at the expense of the Palestinian people and they introduced the Balfour Declaration to the mandate of Palestine. So that created the first crack in the history of the international law-based system which somebody referred to as the rules-based system but we know which rules. Is it the Mosul's rules, is it the Merkava's rules, is it the F35's rules or it is international law as has been delineated by all of us and we have agreed to stick to it. The second aspect is we spoke about it, 181. It was done without even the simplest consult of anyone. The Palestinians were not present on the table. We were denied to have a say. They brought us at the last of minutes in order to verify our position but it never happened and it goes on. But what is the result of all of that? Erasure after erasure after erasure. Following 1947-48, what were the Palestinian people turned into? Where is the question of Palestine? Go to all the history of the world. Nobody was speaking about us. We did not exist. We were only a mere problem to the world, a refugee's problem like you hear today about many refugees and we were supposed to suffice with a sack of wheat and a sardine can that they provided to us and say thank you for that, for taking our land and giving us a tent and a sardine can and a sack of wheat. That's what they ridiculed the Palestinians into. We were not beggars. We were feeding the world just a few years before and then you turned us into beggars who are lining up to get your charity. That's what it is. Up until 1965 when the Palestinian people rebelled against this reality and decided no more. I'm not that. I am a nation that deserves to be respected. It's right to be respected and it went on from there. So yes, I mean the core of what you're asking about is based about what has been plotted for the Palestinian people and it's not conspiracy theory. It's out there for everyone to read to assess the history of the whole question.

It depends. I mean not everyone was on board I would say.

Mostly the right wing and some within the peace camp. They were hoping that they can give us little crumbs and we will suffice a self-ruling governance whereby they have control over every aspect of our life, our faith, and our future and it goes on. But again Oslo was not perfect. Oslo was a step and it was a transitional step that was meant to be ended in five years whereby the Palestinian state should have been established based on UN resolutions and international law and to grant the Palestinians their independence. 22% of historical Palestine for the Palestinians i.e. West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.

What went wrong is the whole approach of the whole question of resolving the conflict. The approach turned from one that was supposed to grant everybody their rights, their rightful rights I would say or legitimate rights, let's put it this way, i.e. the rights that could be clearly delineated in UN resolutions or under international law and which would lead to coexistence and peace between the two nations. In fact, they have ridiculed the whole process into servitude to the occupier. So if the occupier today slept on this side and felt not good, you have to pay the price for that and find solutions for him. I have to ensure his continuous security while he's killing and burying my children. I have to make sure that he can go buy, grab anything he wants and destroy our lives while he's doing this and that. It was an impossible kind of formula which is based on the core fundamental question that we have discussed that is to displace and replace, i.e. erasure of the Palestinian people. More so, that is based on a racist outlook from many of the key players who have been biased all their history towards one side against another. We're already tagged Palestinians are Muslims, even the Christians amongst us are Muslims. It's okay, you can couple us all in one and dismiss all our concerns. It is Israel, whatever they say, it is believable. This is what went wrong in the peace process. You did not have a fair educator in the United States especially. I'm not sure how much everybody is aware, but I'm sure many of you know how politics are run there and how much lobbyists have influence over politics. The role that the EU decided to play in which they monitor, they pay money, but not necessarily take political stances that are required for this process to move forward. I will give one example. I know I'm taking so much of your time. You have so many questions to me and I'm trying to make them less, but let me put it this way. One aspect of the peace process, the illegal settlements, i.e. the colonies in which Israel is colonizing Palestinian land and ending and killing any prospects to achieve the two-state solution. Everybody from the beginning of the peace process until its end was aware that settlements are illegal and that something needs to be done about these settlements. According to Oslo, there should have been a full freeze and reverse the whole settlement enterprise, meaning slowly but surely you will be withdrawing from the occupied Palestinian territory and giving them back to their rightful owners.

No, but nobody, everybody kept entertaining the expansion after expansion after expansion of settlements. And nobody made sure that there was a price that would be exacted. For us, just naming a school after one of our martyrs, which we are proud to call martyr, a community that names a school after her name, Dalal al-Mughrabi, for example, we would pay the price on spot by the whole international community. Okay, the whole funding on education will be stopped until you change the name. So look at the treatment on one side after a school that is not harmful, but they fear that you might radicalize the future generation because you named someone who stood up for Palestine and fought for Palestine after the school. And usually it's not the government, it's the communities that name the school. So we punish on spot. We have the legal system we have now created internationally to make sure or at least prevent or punish afterwards states that continue doing it. After the case, for example, of South Africa brought to the ICJ, you spoke there as a representative, and they warned for the plausible risk of a genocide. Additionally, now we have the report of the United Nations speaking of similar terms. And as you're saying, states are still very much supporting Israel's military strategy right now. So you're representing Palestine in all of this. Why do you think that all of these states then continue to support the Israeli government despite all of the rulings of the ICJ and the UN? Are those just institutions that we might as well just abolish?

Let me avoid the speculation about this. It's unfortunate. You can go as far as you want in speculating. I don't care.

I mean, one of it is that they have them as an interest, a forward base for Western interests. You can go on and speculate. I don't want to get into that. I mean, I leave it to everyone to assess why. But I know that we are governed by certain rules and that those states who have signed up to those rules have a duty and a responsibility to uphold them. So we act based on that and according to that. I don't care what you think when I'm sitting with an official. I don't care what's your background or what's your ideology. If you see me, you don't see me. That's not my problem. The terms of reference for any dialogue between two civilized nations is the terms of reference of international law, international legitimacy, and then you can thrive from there or branch from there and start building into bilateral relation, expanding whatever kind of economic treatment. Going back to the – you want me to answer the question, but you can if there is something that is related.

Good question. You want to ruin the Palestinian-Dutch relations. It's obvious. Well, I would leave that – listen, it's a struggle. I would say it's a struggle. But with all honesty, and I'm not saying this just to appease anyone, the amount of people who believe in following the path of holding accountable those who commit the most heinous of crimes and genocide tops those crimes are much, much more. The odds are not necessarily helpful. You have so many mixed interests which will come into play. So you have the business interests. If somebody is investing in a settlement and he has billions of dollars in this country or somewhere else, he would have a say in politics, whether we like it or not. But in principle, all the officials and all the politicians I sat with do not justify any of these actions. They cannot. We base our discussion on international law. But let me go back to the core of the issue. One is that – and again, it starts if you see the linkages between recognition and lack of recognition, the attempts to erase the Palestinians and the Palestinians rising back from death. And as Mahmoud Darwish calls us, we are the ghosts that they killed so many times, and we keep appearing to them. More so, denial of basic rights and application of international law when it comes to Palestine. And last but not least, refusal to take any action when it comes to very obvious violations, not of international law, of what the whole international community has pressured the Palestinian people to enter into. The two-state solution is not a Palestinian invention. Oslo is not a Palestinian kind of best solution. Our best solution for me, I have a land in Galilee, Upper Galilee in Sassa, and I have the land deeds for this land. This is the perfect solution for me to go back and live in Sassa where my grandfather was and was thrown out for no reason outside of his homeland except that he was a Palestinian tending to his land and somebody somewhere else had a grandiose plan to bring somebody else to settle in his place. So you refuse to take actions against even the principles that you brought me into. They brought us, the whole world gave us guarantees that if you agree to a transitional period in which Israel will be gradually withdrawing from the occupied Palestinian territory, slowly the Palestinian people, and if you agree to put aside your weapons. Because remember, we were in an armed struggle against Israel. When the PLO came into Oslo, we did not say that armed struggle is illegitimate or illegal. What we said, and we'll put it aside for the sake of peace, we are entitled under international law and under international legitimacy to fight back for our land. But we entered Oslo and we decided that we will take another path, the path of political dialogue, the path of international law, and to bring the whole world with us into that path. And unfortunately, never up until now with all that we have achieved and all that you heard about, you mentioned the ICJ advisory opinions and the provisional measures on the South Africa case. You mentioned the issue of ICC and Netanyahu having an arrest warrant in his name. You mentioned all the international legitimacy and international references that speaks about when the Palestinians were absent and when they were present. Everything speaks to your rights, your right to self-determination, everything. But why aren't you moving forward and holding this villain and this occupier, illegal occupier, which the Netherlands recognize as illegal, as the foreign minister said a few days in the parliament? Why don't you hold him to account? What is it that you are waiting for until he kills the last Palestinian standing? This is what you're waiting for? He will not manage with everybody that came out. They will not manage. But it's a long struggle. Things do not come automatically. They don't implement themselves.

Yes, yes, yes, three times yes.

Of course.

Why should I give up on it? What's the alternative?

No, the alternative is what we're seeing now in the board of peace. The alternative is might is right. The alternative is with my muscles, if I have more F-18s and F-35s and Apaches, is that I can take over another land that I like. I passed through, and I think it has so many resources that I want to take, expand my colonial enterprise, allow all the villains around the world to run and do whatever they want. The alternative is to wipe off 100 years of human development. We were at the receiving end. The Palestinians were always at the receiving end of this human development, whether it is international law, whether it is human rights movement, whatever kind of movement that you talk about, we were at the receiving end. We never enjoyed any of these things, and we still don't enjoy it. But we remain the litmus test for this, for the veracity and for the continuity of this. And now, if you look, and I explained to you what happened in the League of Nations and what happened in the establishment of the United Nations, and down the road with the security councils and others. Now, the whole talk about replacing the international law-based system with arrangements like the one we see in the so-called board of peace and others but we don't know what are the extent of it and what it's going to do. We're going to talk about the board of peace later.

No, I'm just talking in comparison. It is the core of the whole thing was Palestine. The UN is now asked always, mostly, because most of the conflicts that went inside the UN and left, most of them, I don't say all of them, have already been resolved according to UN international legitimacy, but not the question of Palestine. So, Palestine remains a test for the continuity, for the eligibility and for the prominence of this international system. And the alternative, and you say, why not? The alternative is that. The alternative is to allow for the ones with the big guns to come in and decide, I like this part of the Netherlands, I like this part of France, I will take this, I will take that. And going back, reversing the world, all the way back to...

I think the Dutch parliament disagrees with him.

Well, the political party is still big, but it's true that we have a new government. But still, this minister is right in place, and unfortunately in the new coalition agreement there has been nothing about Palestine. So how do you still continue the conversations with the Netherlands?

I don't think there is a specific talk about any specific issues. Had there been, I would have been demonstrating with you...

You cannot stop. You cannot stop. I need to always highlight that the Netherlands have legal responsibilities towards the Palestinian people and towards implementing all international resolutions as well as ICJ advisory opinions. And I don't see or hear anything different. The problem comes with implementation. And this is where citizens and activists and NGOs who are peace-loving and want to align their country's positions with international law come into play. I cannot bring a court against the government of the Netherlands. I'm a foreign at the end of the day here in this country. All I have is dialogue resorting to building relations with the vast majority and alliances who support international law and who support Palestinian rights and everybody who speaks in a way that is acceptable and in line with international law. But I cannot move cases against the government. This is where you step in as the public. So again, international law is mobility starts with the rightful citizens and those who have advocacy towards implementing it within their governments and others. And if you see the more governments that are aligned with international law, there is a more citizen kind of activity related to ensure that their government is aligned in that sense. Even in South Africa, the most ardent supporter of the state of Palestine, you have a wide public. This government is basically attaining to their constituency request, and that is you need to stand up for Palestine as we stood up for apartheid and as the Palestinians stood up with us when we were fighting apartheid. And this is where the role of constituency. You don't know how much effect the red line, for example, demonstrations did in this country. In my opinion, it moved mountains. Yes, we have not reached the point where we completely changed the position or we see or witness, but today you have the Netherlands speaking about additional measures when it comes to illegal colonial products coming from Israel that is stolen from Palestinian blood, water, and rights and life in a way. Today you have more conversation about enacting more kind of sanctions on terrorist settlers and colonialists. You are talking more about decreasing the level of cooperation of military, which goes against what you have told me that the minister of defense have said. And that did not come out of awakening of conscience, honestly. Let's be honest here. It came because the people came out and said enough is enough. And they gave them the cue, and that's what led to the change. But now the idea is not to take a step back. The idea is to move forward and keep marching forward in order to achieve the change that you and I and humanity demands.

I sat before he was elected, not during. I think he's too busy. I don't think he's sitting with anyone, not even his own family, while preparing for the government to be. But I know him personally. I know his party platform is the recognition of Palestinian rights and the existence of the state of Palestine. And had it been only his party, it would have been easier for me. But the Dutch people, and we respect that, have chosen a multitude, a colorful kind of government. So we'll wait and deal with them as they come.

Yes, very beautiful indeed.

Well, to your question, they are trying to keep us out, and every time they push us out. Now we are out of everything that's being aligned and prepared for the future of Gaza, trying to seem like they're talking about a piece of land on the top of the moon that has no owners, just like 1916 League of Nations and down the road 1945 United Nations. It's the same exact story, but this time it's different. We are here in the capitals. You are here, you read, you educated yourself, and you know exactly what you're doing when you stand up for Palestine and taking off from your time and effort and family to stand up for a cause that you know if you don't stand up for will be your cause tomorrow, will be the cause of your family. And this is why Palestine matters. So the bottom line is that without our pen, nothing will move forward. You can do whatever you want. You can even slice Gaza and attach it to Europe or take it all the way to the moon. You can do whatever you want. You can dream as much as you want. The Palestinian people are the ones who will determine their faith. When we said no to 181, we meant no because it was all ours, and we had the right to say no. And I proudly say that it was the correct choice. I don't care whatever anyone says about this. It was the right choice. I don't want to share my home with anyone. It's as simple as that. You can come in as a refugee. We can aid you, help you, welcome you. If you are persecuted in Europe, you're most welcome. You have been living amongst us for many, many years. But as a colonizer, no, you're not welcome. So that was 181. Today, it's up to the Palestinian people. We matter. We matter because you stand behind us. We matter because international law, morality, and humanity stands behind us. So they cannot ignore the Palestinians. We are going through a very tough period now in our life where we have been, again, you call it a slice. I have another metaphor in which we have a special dusty shelf. Whenever we manage to make our way to the table, they manage to take us all the way and throw us back to the dusty shelf. So we are somewhere lingering now near the dusty shelf a few steps down. But I think with the international movement that was formed around the call to stop and end the genocide in Gaza and, in my opinion, which also is happening in the West Bank, the ethnic cleansing and everything else that's going on, and that also educated itself about the core of the problem, and that is these people have been denied the right for so long, and we need to give them the right. And the right is self-determination, independence, and statehood. So people have marched and made it clear to everyone. Your first question, and I almost forgot what it was about. So what can you do? What can you do is to carry on, not to stop, but to align yourself with the moralities that you stand on. You cannot be defending a moral cause while you do immoral things. So we cannot resort to the filthy tactics in spite of them being used against us. We cannot be turned into assassins if our enemy assassinate us. We cannot turn into villains and those who just speak, you know, anything, anytime, because our enemies do that. So our power is on the moral ground that we stand on, and we should carry that moral ground and that morality with us everywhere we go. Be the good people we claim to be and carry on. And continue to fight for Palestine and not to be distracted with all of this sideshow that takes place here and there, because the fundamental cause of the Palestinian people, what is our cause? We want to live. We want to be allowed to continue living on our land. The most basic of the basics of rights, that's what we are thriving and fighting for. That's why we have embassies. That's why we struggle. The moment we tell them, you give us our rights, we don't want even our embassies. We will close them all. We will sit down and reflect with our people for 100 years about what happened to us and cry on each other's shoulders because so much has happened and so many injustices took place. And it takes a whole generation to forget that. So give us time to reflect. Give us time to rest.

Thank you very much. Again, I've been thanked a lot for being here, but thank you for having me. It's the other way around. And thank you for taking time off your precious, I guess many of them are not running away from any lectures or anything. But thank you for taking the time to be with us here. I mean, there are so many things to do. So I don't want to direct you towards one thing or another. So you can volunteer with NGOs that are already working in Palestine. You have many doctors who have volunteered in Gaza and have been the voice of Gaza during this genocide. You saw many internationals, Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims, everywhere, coming from all around the world. So that kind of volunteering, so the Rachel Khoury kind of spirit, where you remember who Rachel Khoury is, the American activist who stood in front of a bulldozer and was crushed to death by the Israeli bulldozer. I don't ask you to be crushed. I make sure that you're safe and you're good. But we know that the circle and the noose around Palestine is being tightened by the occupation and more villainous even towards the regular things that they use not to do, to hide, to show that they are humane. They are doing it. They don't care anymore. The other day they decided that 37 organizations, NGOs are no more. Before it, they destroyed UNRWA that have, in my opinion, saved or bought them so much time to continue to be the villain they are without paying one penny for that, because UNRWA was attending to the refugees and to the Palestinians building schools, et cetera, et cetera. There are so many ways, just writing on your social media accounts, just by gathering and discussing, just by debating, retweeting something that you think is important for the rest of the world to know, standing up for humanity everywhere and defending other issues around the globe, exposing the villainous of certain actions. I mean it starts and it doesn't end. I don't have a list, but there are so many things. And certainly as a citizen also to hold your elected officials to account. I mean you want them to be aligned with international law, you need to write to them and demand that. I elected you. I want you. You are in office because you are a servant to the people, and as such I want you to do this, this, and that to align our country's position with international law. It starts and it doesn't end. You know it better. You have more genius ideas than we are. We are already dinosaurs in comparison with your generation. But nonetheless, there is so much that you can do, and I think you have done a lot. So carry on, keep pushing forward, and don't let anybody dictate to you what is right and what is wrong. Read, educate yourself, make sure that you are aligned with what you think is right, and carry on. And as I said to your colleague, make sure that you also don't become the villain in the process because it's easy to be moved off our place. Somebody curses you, your first inclination, me as a Palestinian, for example, I'll curse him for the end of life. That's the way we do it, right? But no, you need to try and to connect as much as you can with that moral ground, and that's what aches them. That's what pains them. That's what made them do all of these shows that you see from the Security Council 2803 up until now. All the shows that you saw came just to thwart one key thing, the movement of the people. The billions of dollars that have been spent in order to shape your opinions as a generation, in your schools, indoctrination, everywhere you go, these are the oppressed people and the only victims of history, I remind you. You cannot even discuss their victimhood, even when they are committing the most heinous of crimes because otherwise you'll be tagged with one of the many names they have for you. And it goes on. So silencing, character assassination, don't fear that. And many are fearful for their future, so they better move on. The smart thing to do is to let whoever is bleeding, because I don't know what's happening to him, bleed. It's not my problem. I haven't hit him. I can move on. But one day, God forbids, you might be in that same situation and you want that person who moved to stand up for you. So humanity is interconnected, and Palestine cannot be left alone. And the ramifications we find today, a whole shift towards the right and the resurrection of racism, which is a common place for some politicians. They speak about the other as, you know, villains, something that we thought that we have ended in our history, became okay. Why? Because apartheid is okay in Palestine, and you can carry on having an apartheid regime, and you can support it, sustain it, and make sure that it exists. Why cannot I become the villain today and make another apartheid in my country? And it carries on. So thank you.

Bright, beautiful, full of olive trees, that's how I see our future. We have, as Mahmoud Darwish says, we have always resorted to what is right, and what is right will come to us at the end. That's the bottom line of how I see it. And what the prime minister of Canada is speaking about and warning against, we have been warning against for 40 years at least now. What's happening in Palestine is going to haunt you all one day. You will not be exempted because the villains who are doing this in Palestine are connected with the villains elsewhere of the world, and everybody is taking the cue. And, you know, I think he was invited. I don't know if he declined the invitation, but also Trump came out the second day and said, no, I don't want him anymore after that statement. And it speaks volumes about the state of affairs of the world. It's in the same exact conference that these two complete different narratives took place, one that pictures the world as transactional. I lend you my power, you give me money back in return. I lend you my clout and you give me back your resources and whatever. So that's one example. And the other example that wants to say, hey, we came to the conclusion that this international system with all its aches and worries and ailments is the best that humanity can come with. Let's hold on to it. That's where we are. We are at the crossing road, and each and every one of us, if you don't want to repeat the images, and hopefully they won't be repeated, of what we saw as in black and white and we were laughing at the way their pictures, the way they were dressed, and the way people were killed in World War II and how gruesome the images were. We need to act and act quickly because time is running out of our hands, and we need to make sure that we don't go to the branch that wants to lead us to self-destruction, but rather to go. And it goes along with everything that we talk about, every international affair, whether it is climate change, rights of the enfranchised people inside our communities. Every aspect of our life is being challenged today, and there is a reversal process that's going on by many villains around the world. It's honestly difficult to end such a complex interview, but we genuinely want to thank you, Ambassador Hijazi, for your time and inspiring words. We wish you and the people of Palestine much success. At the same time, we of course want to thank the audience for all your questions and for participating and coming to this interview today. This interview was a collaboration between Room for Discussion and the Arab Student Association. In case you have other guests you wish to see on this stage, feel free to propose this by sending a message to Room for Discussion.

Thank you very much. Thank you so much.